Obesity Discussion Forums

[Steve]

I am going to rant a little here. Not that I am upset or mad, it will be a friendly rant.

First, there is a metric-ton of new people signing up to this forum on a daily basis. I think it is great. It actually blows my mind how many new members we have signing up.

However, with the onset of new activity, I have noticed that everyone is looking for that "one routine" that leads to success.

My favorite when it comes to nutrition is this:

"So I tried that calorie counting thing before and it didn't work, so now I am trying low carb."

My response that I would LIKE to use is, "Earth to You. All diets are based on calories. Even if they don't directly say it, they are. It is scientifically impossible for them to NOT be based on calories. Calories are energy. To lose weight, you must create an energy deficit. No questions about it! Sure, you can try the low carb approach, but if your energy intake isn't right, you won't lose a pound. Now flip that to a high carb approach (against commonsense) however, account for energy intake and wala, you've got weight loss. You see, there is only one underlying factor that drives weight loss, and that is calorie (energy) balance."

If you pour motor oil in your gas tank, the car won't run. That doesn't mean cars don't work.

Or, on the training side of things, you always have the person looking for the "routine" that leads to optimal results. Guess what? There isn't one. There is a set of basic principles that apply to everyone. These principles can be arranged a million different ways to create a "method" of doing things. I hate the idea of "routines." They limit your thinking. They lock you into a set way of doing things. Knowing how amazingly adaptive our bodies are, it should be common sense that a set "routine" is not the smartest choice. Rather, understanding the basic principles that apply to everyone is paramount IMO. I know you don't want to have to put thought into it. You just want to be handed a sheet that tells you exactly when and what to eat and when and how to train. If you think you can't do this on your own, find a trainer! A good one.

This certainly isn't written in stone, and I did not plan on writing this. At this point I am merely jibber-jabbering. BUT, a few things I think everyone should understand:

1. In terms of weight lifting, it is hard to go wrong if you are training each bodypart/movement 2-3 times a week with the basic barbell exercises, focusing on something between 5 and 10 reps for 3-5 sets per exercise, and striving to improve your weights over time.

2. Manage stress. Dieting is a physiological stress. Exercise is a physiological stress. You need breaks. By constantly stressing your body, you actually accumulate fatigue. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. However, if you aren't careful, and continue to push yourself past this "over-reached" state without managing your fatigue, you can reach a point of being "over-trained." This is not a fun place to be.

3. Training to a point that creates muscle soreness or DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) is not necessary. Actually, often times it is negating in terms of success, especially while dieting. In most cases, when talking about muscle traits such as glycogen levels and protein synthesis, the muscle itself is recovered in almost all cases after 72 hours. But if you are experiencing residual DOMS on a regular basis, you are almost certainly not recovering neurologically, which ties into the overtrained state from above.

4. High Intensity Interval Training. Somewhere along the line of my time on the forum, things were twisted. It became the, "Steve said HIIT is the ONLY way to do cardio" forum. This is far from true. One, a combination of steady state and interval work is called for IMO. Two, not everyone should expect to be ready for HIIT their first month of training. It takes a build up of fitness to perform true HIIT.

A simple progression for those with no exercise experience within the last 3-5 months might look something like this:

Low intensity steady state cardio (40-60% of max HR, ball-parked)
Steady state cardio (70-85% of max HR, ball-parked)
Interval training
HIIT

Once you reach a "good" level of conditioning, this does NOT mean that you rely solely on HIIT.

5. There is no set caloric intake that is right for everyone. If you are following a diet that is telling you to eat a certain level of calories without taking into account your personal stats, 99 out of 100 times it is a bogus diet.

So how many calories should you consume?

A general rule of thumb for determining your break-even (maintenance) caloric intake is 14-16 calories per pound of bodyweight. These numbers are skewed, however, for very lean people or very big people.

Also, to invoke weight loss, a good general rule of thumb shoot for 12 cals/lb or thereabouts, get at least 1g/lb of protein, good healthy fats (75g or so is a good number to start with) and fill in the rest with carbs.

Monitor your progress through measurements. If things are heading in the right direction, modify your approach. Maybe drop your caloric intake to 11 or 10 cals per pound.

Also remember that you're not going to drop more than at most 3 lbs week of fat, likely less in practice, so trying to pull some BS to drop scale weight in a hurry isn't going to impact that. Slow and steady wins this race.

6. Starvation mode. So many claim to be in it. They are eating 1200 calories and not losing weight. Sadly, more often then not, based on the empirical evidence that has been presented to me, people aren't actually eating 1200 calories each and everyday on a consistent basis. Sure, some days they hit that low point. However, other days they are eating 1500+. Or, on Saturdays they binge all day or have massive cheat meals at their local restaurant. Don't lie to yourself. Be precise. If you can't do that, don't complain that counting calories isn't working when you are fudging the stats.

Does low calorie intake really invoke the starvation mode? I hate this term, starvation mode. It makes it seem like there is a switch that is flipped and all of a sudden, your metabolism shuts down. This couldn't be further from the truth. In reality, even a sane, proper diet will invoke the starvation mode if you ride it out long enough. The starvation response is a process. A process that gradually slows down your metabolic rate. Never does it completely turn off your metabolism. Eat 500 calories each and everyday. I promise you will never STOP losing weight. Look at anorexics. Sure, it won't be healthy. And even if you reached your goal weight you wouldn't be happy with the way you looked. However, you would continually lose weight.

If you ate 1000 calories per day instead, maybe, dependent on the individual, weight loss could plateau. All this means is your metabolic rate dropped enough to match your 1000 calorie intake.

Point being, it doesn't drop forever. Also, the process takes a hell of a lot longer than most with a lot of weight to lose, think. If you are fat, don't worry about the starvation response. If you are lean, and looking to get leaner, then plan for the starvation response by tweaking your dietary approach.

People don't seem to realize that there's a physical limit to how low your calorie expenditure can go while you're still considered alive. Metabolic damage has become a scare-tactic buzzword with no real basis in reality.

7. Set goals properly. I am not going to get into the importance of setting goals. I just want to note that it is important to make sure your goals do not conflict. 9/10 people come onto this forum looking to lose fat and gain muscle. This is not how our bodies work. Focus on one thing at a time. Gaining muscle dictates different stimulus through diet and nutrition than does losing fat.

8. Building muscle is not the be all end all component to speeding up your metabolism. People think that muscle burns some ridiculous amount of calories per day. The latest numbers I have seen are something like 6 calories/pound/day.

Fat-free mass is the primary determinant of BMR. However, people confuse FFM and muscle. While muscle is a component of FFM, FFM is also made up of internal organs, bone, water, etc.

The decrease in BMR with dieting is not due to a loss of muscle. It is due to the process of dieting in and of itself, and the various adaptations that take place within the body.

9. You MUST eat at least 5 meals per day. Fact of fallacy?

Answer: Fallacy

There is a huge myth that has been floating around the fitness circles that eating more meals per day speeds up your metabolism, thus, helping you lose more weight.

It doesn't.

I am a fan of multiple, smaller meals. I, myself, consume 6-7 per day. However, this is not because of some magical metabolic change that occurs due to the number of meals consumed. I eat that many mainly b/c I have to pack in so much food in order to add muscle. Too, eating multiple times per day helps with macro/micro nutrient uptake, insulin regulation, etc, etc. It has its benefits, but aiding in metabolic rate and therefore weight loss is not one of them.

If you can't squeeze in that many meals per day due to schedule, don't sweat it.

I am sure I will think of more things to add. Maybe I will edit the post later.

But for simplicity's sake, and for those who didn't want to read all that banter above:

1. Eat as much food as possible that still allows for weight loss. Starving yourself does not lead to long-term success.

2. Exercise aerobically using a mixture of steady state and interval cardio.

3. When it comes to lifting weights: Pick up heavy things, move them up and down a few times, and put them down. Big exercises that call on big, numerous muscles are ideal for muscle maintenance. High rep work while dieting in order to "tone" is BS.

Lastly, I have been noticing a lot of people taking my word as the gospel around here. Don't do that. Never trust anyone as being a "guru." IMO, there is no such thing. A lot claim to be, especially on the web. However, don't fall for that trap. Once you do, you will stop asking questions. "Learning" will become memorizing and regurgitating what comes out of said guru's mouth. Think for yourself. Ask questions. Read on your own. Research. Get clarification. Use that thing that resides between your ears.
Changing your physique is hard. Hard because it takes a lot of work, belief, consistency, and effort. Not hard b/c there is a chance of doing things incorrectly. Or that you don't know enough. Pretty much ANYTHING will work as long as calories are in check. There, of course, are optimal ways of doing things. But, the difference between what you are doing currently, and the optimal way of doing things isn't something to get aggravated about. Rather, that difference is something to minimize through consistently modifying your approach to include more of the optimal strategies.

Don't get caught up in the way of thinking where you actually start to believe that what you are doing is futile. As long as you are doing SOMETHING, you are on the right track. It's those who give up who are heading in the wrong direction.

This was not typed with the intention of showing you exactly what to do. There are other threads devoted to that. This was simply to get you thinking conceptually.

[Steve]

This was a piece I recently wrote for another forum.... figured the info is applicable anywhere.

[Obesity Discussion]

Originally Posted by Steve

This was a piece I recently wrote for another forum.... figured the info is applicable anywhere.

It took me a while to figure out you were writing this for another forum.

I do agree with a lot of what you said. I would like to add that some people can drop all their bad lifestyle habits cold turkey, while others can't, and I think a lot of people become overwhelmed and discouraged thinking they have to make all these changes at once. The prospect of dropping soda, dropping sweets, doubling water intake, stopping eating out, counting calories and nutients, changing other foods to healthier versions, starting a new exercise routine, etc can be a lot to swollow at once. Like you said earlier, slow and steady wins the race. There's nothing wrong with making improvements one at a time until you feel you have mastered it and are ready to move on.

One of my biggest fears too is that people underestimate the calories they are eating.....as you mentioned. I enourage people to log the calories they consume for a few days so that way they can't lie to themselves.

Mental preparedness is important. You need to be mentally ready and committed to make it work for the long hall. I think some people jump into things before they're ready.

Lastly, I wish people would exercise more.......I think people greatly undervalue its benefits.

[Steve]

I agree with all of the above.

[William Wallace]

Originally Posted by Steve

However, with the onset of new activity, I have noticed that everyone is looking for that "one routine" that leads to success.

My favorite when it comes to nutrition is this:

"So I tried that calorie counting thing before and it didn't work, so now I am trying low carb."

That makes me

Originally Posted by Steve

My response that I would LIKE to use is, "Earth to You. All diets are based on calories. Even if they don't directly say it, they are. It is scientifically impossible for them to NOT be based on calories. Calories are energy. To lose weight, you must create an energy deficit. No questions about it! Sure, you can try the low carb approach, but if your energy intake isn't right, you won't lose a pound. Now flip that to a high carb approach (against commonsense) however, account for energy intake and wala, you've got weight loss. You see, there is only one underlying factor that drives weight loss, and that is calorie (energy) balance."

This is what kills me is all the magical diet pills and fads that people market as some special plan, and websites that charge $50 for some secret plan.

Originally Posted by Steve

Or, on the training side of things, you always have the person looking for the "routine" that leads to optimal results. Guess what? There isn't one. There is a set of basic principles that apply to everyone. These principles can be arranged a million different ways to create a "method" of doing things. I hate the idea of "routines." They limit your thinking. They lock you into a set way of doing things. Knowing how amazingly adaptive our bodies are, it should be common sense that a set "routine" is not the smartest choice.

If you think you can't do this on your own, find a trainer! A good one.

x Unfortunately, people are very uneducated with respect to weight lifting, and don't know the first thing about it. ANY beginner should get a personal trainer/professional to teach them the ropes. Otherwise you're wasting your time and potentially risking injury.

Originally Posted by Steve

1. In terms of weight lifting, it is hard to go wrong if you are training each bodypart/movement 2-3 times a week with the basic barbell exercises, focusing on something between 5 and 10 reps for 3-5 sets per exercise, and striving to improve your weights over time.

You do legs and upper body at least twice a week? :hmm: I think a lot of people have a hard time committing to at least 4 days of weightlifting a week.

Originally Posted by Steve

2. Manage stress. Dieting is a physiological stress. Exercise is a physiological stress. You need breaks. By constantly stressing your body, you actually accumulate fatigue. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. However, if you aren't careful, and continue to push yourself past this "over-reached" state without managing your fatigue, you can reach a point of being "over-trained." This is not a fun place to be.

What about taking a week off after say 2 months straight of lifting? I remember reading in a few places that this was a good idea.

Originally Posted by Steve

3. Training to a point that creates muscle soreness or DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) is not necessary. Actually, often times it is negating in terms of success, especially while dieting. In most cases, when talking about muscle traits such as glycogen levels and protein synthesis, the muscle itself is recovered in almost all cases after 72 hours. But if you are experiencing residual DOMS on a regular basis, you are almost certainly not recovering neurologically, which ties into the overtrained state from above.

I thought I read something too about how if you go pee right after lifting you can help prevent DOMS or something like that..... or that holding your pee is bad for DOMS....

Originally Posted by Steve

6. Starvation mode. So many claim to be in it. They are eating 1200 calories and not losing weight. Sadly, more often then not, based on the empirical evidence that has been presented to me, people aren't actually eating 1200 calories each and everyday on a consistent basis. Sure, some days they hit that low point. However, other days they are eating 1500+. Or, on Saturdays they binge all day or have massive cheat meals at their local restaurant. Don't lie to yourself. Be precise. If you can't do that, don't complain that counting calories isn't working when you are fudging the stats.

I agree on people undercounting calories, but I think people forget to count condiments, toppings, salad dressings, creamers for coffee, and other things. I also think people miscalculate portion size.

Originally Posted by Steve

7. Set goals properly. I am not going to get into the importance of setting goals. I just want to note that it is important to make sure your goals do not conflict. 9/10 people come onto this forum looking to lose fat and gain muscle. This is not how our bodies work. Focus on one thing at a time. Gaining muscle dictates different stimulus through diet and nutrition than does losing fat.

To expound on this I also think that looking at losing a lot of weight is a daunting task. Instead of setting your weight loss goal for 150lbs, why not start off with something more managable like 10lbs? Achieve that and set another mini-goal. People seem to get discouraged when looking at this huge weight loss number.

Originally Posted by Steve

8. Building muscle is not the be all end all component to speeding up your metabolism. People think that muscle burns some ridiculous amount of calories per day. The latest numbers I have seen are something like 6 calories/pound/day.

Why have so many magazines/articles said so much more in the past (I think 35-50?)

Originally Posted by Steve

9. You MUST eat at least 5 meals per day. Fact of fallacy?

Answer: Fallacy

There is a huge myth that has been floating around the fitness circles that eating more meals per day speeds up your metabolism, thus, helping you lose more weight.

It doesn't.

I am a fan of multiple, smaller meals. I, myself, consume 6-7 per day. However, this is not because of some magical metabolic change that occurs due to the number of meals consumed. I eat that many mainly b/c I have to pack in so much food in order to add muscle. Too, eating multiple times per day helps with macro/micro nutrient uptake, insulin regulation, etc, etc. It has its benefits, but aiding in metabolic rate and therefore weight loss is not one of them.

But I do see some people skipping breakfast and eating only lunch and dinner. I cannot imagine that is good for people.



Steve, this article is killer!!

[Steve]

Originally Posted by William Wallace

This is what kills me is all the magical diet pills and fads that people market as some special plan, and websites that charge $50 for some secret plan.

It's sad really. It's a simple case of the uninformed selling hopes and dreams. It really pisses me off to be honest. Not only does it negatively impact the end-user, but it also hurts the training industry as a whole.

x Unfortunately, people are very uneducated with respect to weight lifting, and don't know the first thing about it. ANY beginner should get a personal trainer/professional to teach them the ropes. Otherwise you're wasting your time and potentially risking injury.

I agree, hiring a trainer would be ideal.

Unfortunately, many don't have the kind of excess cash to spend.

In reality, I really don't think a trainer is necessary for success in programming. If anything, the most critical help a trainer can provide the novice is learning proper form in each of the major exercises. Learning something correctly from the start is much easier than learning to execute a movement correctly after doing it incorrectly for years. Those damn neural inputs are a hard thing to rearrange!

Secondly, I'd be willing to bet if I randomly selected 10 trainers from multiple gyms, a vast majority of them would be boobs.

Boob in this sense = individual who doesn't even understand the basic biomechanics associated with the major lifts or how to perform them correctly.

You do legs and upper body at least twice a week? :hmm: I think a lot of people have a hard time committing to at least 4 days of weightlifting a week.

Not always.

Sometimes though. Weight lifting is more advantageous than cardio IMO, so certainly more weighting should be handed to it.

However, for the novice trainee, something like a full body routine 3 days per week is idea, again, IMO. I recently wrote and article here called "the big lifts." I think it was stickied.

That's a general idea of how a novice could structure a program.

Individual factors must be considered when setting up a routine, of course. But again, 3 days per week full body routine seems to cover most everyone who is classified as a novice.

What about taking a week off after say 2 months straight of lifting? I remember reading in a few places that this was a good idea

.

I can't really answer this.

Manipulating and managing intensity is all part of proper programming. Doing it right is a very individual thing, as we all have different recovery abilities.

In a nutshell though, training should match our recovery rates.

A novice can recover quicker than an advanced, therefore they can train more frequently.

Management of fatigue is one of the most misunderstood programming components out there. It's hard to put a metric on it too, since it's such an individual factor.

A couple of terms associated with the subject:

1. Strategic Deconditioning = your week or so off from training for recovery.

2. Deloading = you still train, however, it's at a reduced volume, intensity, tonnage, etc.

I agree on people undercounting calories, but I think people forget to count condiments, toppings, salad dressings, creamers for coffee, and other things. I also think people miscalculate portion size.

I'm sure you're right. It's a combo of the two.

To expound on this I also think that looking at losing a lot of weight is a daunting task. Instead of setting your weight loss goal for 150lbs, why not start off with something more managable like 10lbs? Achieve that and set another mini-goal. People seem to get discouraged when looking at this huge weight loss number.

I think constructing a hierarchy of goals is critical. I didn't really get into my take on goal-setting in this article simply b/c I didn't want that to be the focus of the article.

That said though, I think having ultimate, long-term, medium-term, and short-term goals is important.

Why have so many magazines/articles said so much more in the past (I think 35-50?)

Don't get your info from magazine/articles.

It couldn't be the fact that on every other page they are selling/advertising a product that will increase muscle mass. Could it?

Steve, this article is killer!!

Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the props!

[mclintst]

Wow great post Steve.

Something quick I'd like to add on the weight training. Weight lifting intimidates so many people and not everyone has access to a gym (health club or the home kind).

I am a big fan of bodyweight exercises, push-ups, dips, chin-ups etc.. They are great for all fitness levels and you can really make some big strength gains. Thanks again for the great info.

Steve

[sass63]

Great posts and responses guys very infomative and I am sure it will help a lot of the newbies.
For those of us that cant exercise its inportant to know that our calorie intake has to be very low for us to lose. The more active the more calories you can consume and still lose. And most that cant do anything still think they can go and eat 1200 cal a day and lose I have found that for myself anyway that is to many.