Obesity Discussion Forums

[Truthseeker]

And a need to exercise?

[monique]

WLS stands for Weight Loss Surgery?

~Monique

[Truthseeker]

Yes, Weight Loss Surgery

[monique]

I think people do it because they think they don't have the willpower to eat less unless the physically HAVE to. But from how many people end up gaining weight back, having complications, and the fact that one in 20 actually DIE, I really don't understand why anyone would choose the surgery either.

You still have to do just as much work after the surgery, and you have to get part of your insides chopped up and rearranged, without knowing exactly what the effects will be down the road. It's not easy to stick with a healthy lifestyle but you just have to WANT it enough and you can do it.

~Monique

[Truthseeker]

I completely agree with you bariatric stands for barbaric surgery. There is a study 2 years down the road 50% gain weight back.

[Obesity Discussion]

Originally Posted by monique

I think people do it because they think they don't have the willpower to eat less unless the physically HAVE to. But from how many people end up gaining weight back, having complications, and the fact that one in 20 actually DIE, I really don't understand why anyone would choose the surgery either.

You still have to do just as much work after the surgery, and you have to get part of your insides chopped up and rearranged, without knowing exactly what the effects will be down the road. It's not easy to stick with a healthy lifestyle but you just have to WANT it enough and you can do it.

~Monique

Monique, where did you hear that 1 in 20 die from bariatric surgery? That ratio seems a very high....

I think surgery can be the right option for some people, as not everyone has the willpower to do it naturally....though I recommend people always try to lose weight naturally before considering this extreme.

[Truthseeker]

I would say that no one can say with certainty how many die as a result of Bariatric Surgery cause researchers are in the sack with surgeons for a piece of the Bariatric "Gold Rush" a 10 Billion industry and rising.

Researchers are exagerating the risks of obesity and minimizing the risks of surgery. When someone commits herself (80% or more are women) to WLS they are surely committing themselves not only to risk of the initial surgery but to Gall Bladder surgery which multiplies general surgery risk by 2 and plastic surgery which multiplies the risk by 3.

There was a study that found out that during the first year there is an 18% chance of surgery (besides the original WLS), second year 15%, and third 12%.

Besides the surgeons do not have to count a person who dies of a plastic surgery or other complication months or years later as part of the death rate of Bariatric Surgery.

So I would say that unfortunately the surgery racket does not allow the public to know the true mortality rate. The popularity of the surgeries is driven by patients desperation and the industries infomercials disguised as seminars for diabetes or hypertension cures.

[MichaelB]

I don't think bariatric surgery is anywhere nearly as dangerous as a couple seem to portray, and it's kinda humorous to hear people proposing wingnut conspiracy theories about those diabolical surgeons.

That being said, I'm not a huge fan because it really is permanent and drastic step to take. For some who are beyond morbidly obese, it may be their only feasible option -- even drastic measures are preferable to death.

As an aside, I use Alli and besides the obvious "fat-blocking" effect, I like the fact that I get immediate feedback (or "consequences", if you prefer) when I eat meals with too much fat / grease. There's nothing pleasant about gas, cramping, and/or diarrhea, but those unpleasant side-effects have led me to make better, healthier food choices and avoid high-fat and/or larger portions of fatty foods.

I understand that those that go for weight loss surgery experience something similar when they overeat or have too much sugar (not necessarily the same side effects, but rather, the immediate physical pain/discomfort). I can see where that would go a long way to conditioning the people and encouraging them to have a healthy maintainable diet.

[Truthseeker]

I don't like conspiracy theories of any kind. If you knew me I've been many times labeled right wing by many. I have researched and read between the lines of what's going on with research about Bariatric surgery and arrived at my own honest conclusion.

I am not inventing any, i.e. bariatric surgeons have "given up" trying to weed out people psychologically unsuited for the surgery cause "their" research shows that the results do not warrant attempts at weeding them out. In other words regardless of psychological assessments there is no way to predict patient success. This is just a way to protect themselves from lawsuits when they operate on people with a history of severe depression, bipolar personality etc...Such a risky surgery is driven only by patient demand and this is highly profitable.There are potentially probably 10 million people in America that "need" the surgery.

Dr Mason the inventor of RNY for weight loss was very concerned about the long term consequences of the operation. If you read some of his statements he uses very restraint language (cause he's afraid of the reaction of the people that are making a living, his colleagues, out of the operation) but I suppose his conscience and worries about his legacy maybe pushed him to be on the record with cautionary words.
Dr. Mason also advices patients to learn in minute detail and with pretty complicated medical language to describe their operations cause in case they are in a ER they must explain this to any physician that is not trained in the operation. I think he's trying to scare away many patients in his own oblique way like telling them after the operation you are basically on your own....
After going through all that risk one still needs to follow an extreme diet and exercise a lot to be successful at keeping the weight loss. I don't see the point unless you are near death at least 400 lbs overweight.

[monique]

I can't remember which study I was thinking of, but here's analysis of one that shows a death rate of over 5% (the one in twenty I referred to) within 5 years of surgery. I read the full study but this link is to an evaluation of it, the study is kind of dense and they link to another synopsis of it if you want details. Basically you will find that the rate of suicide for those who have had weight loss surgery is WAY higher than for the control group of people who stayed obese- somewhere between 8 and 16 times higher than average depending on how many of the drug overdoses were intentional. And it's impossible to determine or prove whether many of these people would have died anyway without the surgery but it is clear that AT LEAST 1% (one in a hundred is still a big risk if you ask me, would you cross the street at an intersection where every hundredth person got killed by a truck?!) died of clearly surgery-related causes like gastro-intestinal leakage or sepsis.
Diabetes Update: More on the Actual Gastric Bypass Death Rate

Here's another statistic for you: "The usually quoted fatality rate for gastric bypass is 1 in 200. And even though this rate is nearly twice the rate of other major operations of similar complexity (1 in 350) leading legal professionals believe the rate to be "much higher". As was the case in Fresno, poor physician reporting procedure and inaccurate death certificates are believed to account for the discrepancy. Studies show that in the first two years after a successful gastric bypass, a patient will lose on average 2/3 to 3/4 of their excess weight. Though typically some of this lost weight returns, studies indicate that in the 5 to 15 years after the operation, the patient will, on average, keep off 1/2 of the additional weight."

The full article is here: Gastric Bypass Surgery Statistics - Gastric Bypass Surgery Malpractice Lawsuits

So best case scenario, you only have a one percent chance of dying in the first month after surgery, and then you probably lose most of your excess weight, but you probably gain at least half of it back within 15 years. That's not great odds if you ask me.

~Monique

[Truthseeker]

I agree with you those are not good odds to me. Especially as everyone knows the weight comes on slowly so it's a given that to lose it, it will take time and perseverance.

Besides new advances in medicine may make obsolete all the surgeries but then it would be too late to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

For a decade or more doctors were pushing 1 aspirin a day. Now they say it's an overkill if there is no history of heart disease in your family or yourself cause it can lead to cerebral bleeding or bleeding in the gastrointestinal tract.

I bet one day may even be a class action suit with the victims of Bariatric Surgery, or at least a big backlash against it.

[Obesity Discussion]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I agree with you those are not good odds to me. Especially as everyone knows the weight comes on slowly so it's a given that to lose it, it will take time and perseverance.

Besides new advances in medicine may make obsolete all the surgeries but then it would be too late to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

For a decade or more doctors were pushing 1 aspirin a day. Now they say it's an overkill if there is no history of heart disease in your family or yourself cause it can lead to cerebral bleeding or bleeding in the gastrointestinal tract.

I bet one day may even be a class action suit with the victims of Bariatric Surgery, or at least a big backlash against it.

One of the problems with medicine is all too often we as a society follow the crowd and do what everyone else is doing...the aspirin example is a good one. There have been a decent amount of times we as a society do something because it's recommended by a professional, only to find out later that suggestion was bad for our health.

[Jasmine130]

Hi...I joined obesitydiscussion.com initially to reply to this thread . But it took quite awhile for my account to be activated so here I am.

I introduced my self on the introduction thread and I have already posted back and forth with a couple of folks who responded on this WLS thread.

I'm a gastric bypass patient, and on 06/24 I'll be 21 months out from surgery. I've lost 218 pounds, and I've been maintaining this loss since October 2008. I had my first phase of plastic surgery, a tummy tuck and lower body lift, on 05/11/2009 and am healing very well. I was out on my bike yesterday, started back swimming last week, and this weekend I'm going kayaking for the first time since my 05/11 surgery.

My quick answer to the question, "...if you don't like diets and exercise, why choose..." is, I do like diets (kind of) and I do like exercise (most definitely). So, I am very grateful to have a "surgically induced diet" and having lost all this weight helps me love exercise and physical activity more than I have for the last 25 years of super morbid obesity.

Re the risks, I carefully weighed all the risks...the risks of dying from complications from obesity...the risks of having an incapicatating stroke and diabetes and immoblity, thus becoming a burden to my family...against the risks of dying from major surgery, having my gallbladder removed and having plastic surgery.

I've now reversed/eliminated all those co-morbidities and am taking advantage of the support that's out there for me to help in what is a lifelong battle against obesity. My support network includes: Overeaters Anonymous meetings 2x a week, plus daily check-ins with my sponsor and my sponsee; attendance at 2 monthly surgery support group meetings; ongoing research on what makes for long-term success for weight loss surgery patients; and bi-weekly meetings with a therapist who specializes in eating disorders in women.

Well, I guess that wasn't a short answer after all, but it's my perspective in a nutshell.

-Jasmine

[SheaGrl]

Thanks for sharing Jasmine. I'm sure a lot of our members will be interested in reading your story and have some questions.

That's wonderful that you have such a great support system. Did your WLS doctor recommend that you do all this post-surgery? Or is it something you just kind of started doing on your own?

[Jasmine130]

Hi Sheagirl, yes - my WLS surgeon strongly urged me, and at his surgery support group meetings, always urges patients and potential patients, to reach out for ongoing support in order to help ensure long-term success. He presents the surgeries he performs as a part of the picture, and warns that if a patient does not engage in support networks and address their eating problems, they are very likely to (1) not reach their target weight (2) regain some or all of their excess weight and (3) become obese *and* malnourished.

[monique]

It sounds like your surgeon is doing a good job making sure his patients know it's not a quick fix. The danger of regaining the weight and being obese AND malnourished is what I think is the real problem with WLS. Because that really is worse than just failing on a diet and regaining weight but still having your digestive system healthy. I think if everyone was seeking the help you are, Jasmine, that the statistics would be much, much better for people keeping the weight off. My feeling is that whether you lose faster through WLS or slower through diet and exercise modification, dealing with the psychological reasons you became obese is the true "cure" for obesity. Anything is only a temporary fix until you figure out why you let yourself gain in the first place and deal with that.

~Monique

[Jasmine130]

Right on Monique!

[Obesity Discussion]

Originally Posted by Jasmine130

Hi Sheagirl, yes - my WLS surgeon strongly urged me, and at his surgery support group meetings, always urges patients and potential patients, to reach out for ongoing support in order to help ensure long-term success. He presents the surgeries he performs as a part of the picture, and warns that if a patient does not engage in support networks and address their eating problems, they are very likely to (1) not reach their target weight (2) regain some or all of their excess weight and (3) become obese *and* malnourished.

I'm glad your WLS surgeon did this...because it is so important not to go back to the old habits in order to maintain the weight loss. It pains me to see people who went through the entire ordeal of WLS only to gain it back. I wish more people would understand that at some point in time, eating and emotional habits have to be addressed...and surgery isn't a cure all.

[Jasmine130]

Yes, it is very very painful when someone who has taken the drastic step of WLS regains the weight. In fact, a number of these folks go on to commit suicide. Having thought the surgery was a cure-all, forever thing, the regain was just the final failure. The discouragement must be overwhelming, and perhaps embarrassment/shame as well.

This is why I cringe a little when I see someone say, whether or not they've had weight loss surgery, "45 pounds -- gone forever" or "100 pounds -- gone forever!". It is good to have a positive vision for yourself, but those of us who are binge-eaters can't be lulled into complacency and think that regain will never happen to us.