Obesity Discussion Forums

[koogala]

Hey! Just found this site!

I'm 44, 6"3, 464, down from 505 as of 10-1-2006. I'm currently in a lifestyle change for the third time in my life. Lost 174 in 2000 & 130 in 1983.

Thought it might be a unique experience to try this in a internet community for a change.

I'm here to listen learn & help.

[Merle]

Originally Posted by koogala

Hey! Just found this site!

I'm 44, 6"3, 464, down from 505 as of 10-1-2006. I'm currently in a lifestyle change for the third time in my life. Lost 174 in 2000 & 130 in 1983.

Thought it might be a unique experience to try this in a internet community for a change.

I'm here to listen learn & help.

Hi koogala! Glad to have you here! First of all, congratulations on losing 40lbs in the last 3.5 months! That is quite an accomplishment in itself! This messageboard is a tight knit very supporting community, and you will get tons of motivation here! There are a lot of tips on the message board to help you lose weight and keep it off. I personally love reading all the studies and research and the 1000 or so healthy recipes which are very tasty

The board administrator "Obesity Discussion" is very knowledgible about exercise as well, and is more than happy to answer questions.

If you don't mind me asking, have you set any weight loss goals for yourself? Have you figured out how you want to achieve your weight loss this go around?

[koogala]

I'm headed for 300 or less, wherever that is. At 320 in 2000 I could jog 3 miles in 45-50 minutes.... I'm older & creakier now so I'm not really expecting to do that. I want a resting heart rate of 50-60 bpm & good general health. I'm weightlifting now, having just walled off part of a garage to house a Smith machine, dumbells, & speed bag. As I lose some weight I will start walking a little (15 minutes start, adding 5 min. each 2 weeks) I've done this so much I feel like a professional weight loser than
a lifter. I VE GOT TO KEEP IT OFF THIS TIME! I'm running out of years & chances.

[Obesity Discussion]

Originally Posted by koogala

Hey! Just found this site!

I'm 44, 6"3, 464, down from 505 as of 10-1-2006. I'm currently in a lifestyle change for the third time in my life. Lost 174 in 2000 & 130 in 1983.

Thought it might be a unique experience to try this in a internet community for a change.

I'm here to listen learn & help.

Welcome koogala, you came to the right place! Looks like you are already on the right track (physically and mentally), and know what needs to be done, exercise and reducing caloric intake. There are tons of resources here to help you on your way, and if there is anything we can do to help, please don't hesitate to ask!

[koogala]

Originally Posted by Obesity Discussion

Welcome koogala, you came to the right place! Looks like you are already on the right track (physically and mentally), and know what needs to be done, exercise and reducing caloric intake. There are tons of resources here to help you on your way, and if there is anything we can do to help, please don't hesitate to ask!

I have two questions in particular I have not found good answers to.

All the info says: You need .8-2 grams of protein/ lb. of bodyweight.
That would be 160-400 grams for a lean 200 lb. man.
THAT IS QUITE A RANGE. What is a good anwer, narrowing the range quite a bit?

Also, I assume we're talking our LEAN body mass as opposed to our obese
mass. What would my lean mass be?

I used the calculators you have on your site & I came up with 331 as a lean body mass & 133 on a bodyfat factor. At 331, I am still quite chunky.
That was roughly my Sr. year in high school weight. I think around 260-270 would be goog for myself with about 10-12% bodyfat.

I'm 464 now w/ a 66" waist. Maybe I did something wrong>

[Obesity Discussion]

Originally Posted by koogala

I have two questions in particular I have not found good answers to.

All the info says: You need .8-2 grams of protein/ lb. of bodyweight.
That would be 160-400 grams for a lean 200 lb. man.
THAT IS QUITE A RANGE. What is a good anwer, narrowing the range quite a bit?

When you say you need .8 to 2 grams of protein per lb of body weight, are you referring to the amount of protein needed to add muscle? Weightlifters looking to add muscle (and add weight) attempt to consume 1g protein per pound they weigh at a minimum, and for serious weight gain/muscle growth, 1.5g-2g of protein per pound they weigh. Is that what you are referring to? If so then the answer is no, that rule does not apply to your total body weight. It's really meant for thin individuals looking to add muscle and weight.

Originally Posted by koogala

Also, I assume we're talking our LEAN body mass as opposed to our obese
mass. What would my lean mass be?

I used the calculators you have on your site & I came up with 331 as a lean body mass & 133 on a bodyfat factor. At 331, I am still quite chunky.
That was roughly my Sr. year in high school weight. I think around 260-270 would be goog for myself with about 10-12% bodyfat.

I'm 464 now w/ a 66" waist. Maybe I did something wrong>

I believe the calculator I had posted on there had a glitch in it now, it used to work fine. I replaced it with a more accurate calculator:

Body Fat Calculator For step 2 be sure to use the tape measure method! You need to measure your neck and abdomen! Using this calculator and a guess of a 22" neck, I came up with about 46% body fat for you, and a lean mass of almost 240lbs and a fat weight of almost 220lbs or so.

Although calculators are great, the most accurate way to figure out your lean body mass is through hydrostatic (water tank) body fat testing. Once you figure out your bodyfat percentage, you multiple your bodyfat percentage times your weight. That amount is your "fat weight" and the remaining amount is your lean mass. So at 464lbs, if your bodyfat percentage was 50%, your "fat weight" would be 232lbs, and your lean mass would be 232lbs as well.

[Gordita]

Originally Posted by koogala

I'm here to listen learn & help.

Awesome. I just got here, too. Sounds like you've got some amazing progress done there. CONGRATS.

[koogala]

Originally Posted by Gordita

Awesome. I just got here, too. Sounds like you've got some amazing progress done there. CONGRATS.

Thanks for the input, Gordita. Yes, I've got off to a good start & I feel very lucky to have hypertension as my only real ailment. Doctors are amazed at my knee x-rays that I have very little wear as big as I am.
The only way I am still active is because my work and jobs have been very physical all of my life & I guess I have, over time, developed a frame to carry this weight but I really am starting to feel it over the last couple of years. I don't look like I weigh what I do; most folks guess my weight at 300-350.

Administrator, yes, I was referring to grams of protien per lb. of bodyweight and, yes, a 22" neck is about right. I am really caught up in the weightlifting thing because in order to maintain a positive nitrogen balance I have to eat all that protien & the weight is coming off very slow
for me. In the past when I lost it was in gobs because I wasn't so concerned with the build muscle/burn fat idea and I just ate 200- 300 calories per meal & didn't pay any attention to protien content. I guess what I have heard is true: When you are catabolic you will tear down & lose mass & eat less & anabolic is gaining mass & eating more.

I have read all the mags that say BUILD MUSCLE/BURN FAT. In my state
should I just curcuit train and worry about losing weight PERIOD, or is it actually possible to build muscle & burn off the fat WHILE LOSING WEIGHT
at the same time? Is the speed bag a good cardio workout?

[Obesity Discussion]

Originally Posted by koogala

Administrator, yes, I was referring to grams of protien per lb. of bodyweight and, yes, a 22" neck is about right. I am really caught up in the weightlifting thing because in order to maintain a positive nitrogen balance I have to eat all that protien & the weight is coming off very slow
for me. In the past when I lost it was in gobs because I wasn't so concerned with the build muscle/burn fat idea and I just ate 200- 300 calories per meal & didn't pay any attention to protien content. I guess what I have heard is true: When you are catabolic you will tear down & lose mass & eat less & anabolic is gaining mass & eating more.

I have read all the mags that say BUILD MUSCLE/BURN FAT. In my state
should I just curcuit train and worry about losing weight PERIOD, or is it actually possible to build muscle & burn off the fat WHILE LOSING WEIGHT
at the same time? Is the speed bag a good cardio workout?

First off you need to think outside of the box a bit. Stop being so focused on what the scale says.

Do not look at your body weight as your only measure of progress when you are combining fat loss with lifting weights. If you are lifting weights, you are building muscle, and muscle weighs more than fat. You could lose 20lbs of fat, put on 20lbs of muscle, and think you made no progress because when you step on the scale, your body weight is exactly the same as when you started. But what you've really done is dropped your body fat percentage by almost 5%, and enabled your body to burn an extra 1000 calories a day (from the extra muscle, see below). This is why hydrostatic body fat testing is so helpful, because it lets you know of your true progress (how much muscle you added versus how much fat you have lost), which a scale cannot do. Your eyes can probably let know you as well

Just remember that every pound of muscle you put on burns 50 calories a day at rest, so although you may not see huge results right away from your weight lifting efforts, in the long run it will pay off big time. Just remember you are in this for the long haul, so you should not be overly concerned with drastic results immediately. Building muscle turns your body into a fat and calorie burning machine, and that is what will help you keep the weight off in the long run. Building muscle is so important.

The problem with your previous 200-300 calorie per meal plan was that you may have been starving yourself a bit, especially if you only at 3 meals a day. When you eat that little in a day, you are not only burning fat, but you will also burn away muscle too. Where it really gets you is in the long run, because when you lose muscle, you lose your ability to burn calories. When you got off that low calorie eating plan of yours, your body's ability to burn calories was lower than what it was before, which makes it easier to balloon back up to and beyond your old weight.

At the end of the day for you, since you want to gain muscle and lose fat and weight, the key is to create a small calorie deficit, taking in slightly fewer calories than you use for energy in a given day.

So at the end of the day what I am saying is, you can absolutely build muscle and lose fat, and still lose weight, which is your goal, but you have to stop looking at that scale for now, because the muscle you are adding will skew your results on the scale.

Regarding using the speedbag for cardio, it's a phenomenal workout, however, you really need to get your heart rate up for at least 20 minutes. If you can do the speedbag for more than 20 minutes, or want to add it to your cardio routine after say 30 minutes of riding a stationary bike, then by all means, go for it, as long as you can keep your heart rate up. If you can only do the speedbag for say 5 minutes total, and that was all you were planning on doing, then that is not enough, and you need to add other exercises to your cardio routine.

Something I do when I am short on time, is I will fly through the weight lifting exercises I do without resting, and can get a cardio workout while lifting weights, similar to circuit training, but a bit faster

[Obesity Discussion]

One of our members, Mtxpert takes the hydrostatic body fat test to keep a good eye on his own progress. If you notice on this chart I am attaching, in the last 3 months he has been able to put on about 10lbs of lean muscle while simultaneously losing about 70lbs of fat, for a total weight loss of 60lbs. He was able to accomplish all 3 goals you are looking to accompish. So yes it is very doable

http://www.obesitydiscussion.com/for...4&d=1170220395


Here is the thread where he talks about it:

Trials and tribulations of a middle aged fat man

[koogala]

Originally Posted by Obesity Discussion

First off you need to think outside of the box a bit. Stop being so focused on what the scale says.

Do not look at your body weight as your only measure of progress when you are combining fat loss with lifting weights. If you are lifting weights, you are building muscle, and muscle weighs more than fat. You could lose 20lbs of fat, put on 20lbs of muscle, and think you made no progress because when you step on the scale, your body weight is exactly the same as when you started. But what you've really done is dropped your body fat percentage by almost 5%, and enabled your body to burn an extra 1000 calories a day (from the extra muscle, see below). This is why hydrostatic body fat testing is so helpful, because it lets you know of your true progress (how much muscle you added versus how much fat you have lost), which a scale cannot do. Your eyes can probably let know you as well

Just remember that every pound of muscle you put on burns 50 calories a day at rest, so although you may not see huge results right away from your weight lifting efforts, in the long run it will pay off big time. Just remember you are in this for the long haul, so you should not be overly concerned with drastic results immediately. Building muscle turns your body into a fat and calorie burning machine, and that is what will help you keep the weight off in the long run. Building muscle is so important.

The problem with your previous 200-300 calorie per meal plan was that you may have been starving yourself a bit, especially if you only at 3 meals a day. When you eat that little in a day, you are not only burning fat, but you will also burn away muscle too. Where it really gets you is in the long run, because when you lose muscle, you lose your ability to burn calories. When you got off that low calorie eating plan of yours, your body's ability to burn calories was lower than what it was before, which makes it easier to balloon back up to and beyond your old weight.

At the end of the day for you, since you want to gain muscle and lose fat and weight, the key is to create a small calorie deficit, taking in slightly fewer calories than you use for energy in a given day.

So at the end of the day what I am saying is, you can absolutely build muscle and lose fat, and still lose weight, which is your goal, but you have to stop looking at that scale for now, because the muscle you are adding will skew your results on the scale.

Regarding using the speedbag for cardio, it's a phenomenal workout, however, you really need to get your heart rate up for at least 20 minutes. If you can do the speedbag for more than 20 minutes, or want to add it to your cardio routine after say 30 minutes of riding a stationary bike, then by all means, go for it, as long as you can keep your heart rate up. If you can only do the speedbag for say 5 minutes total, and that was all you were planning on doing, then that is not enough, and you need to add other exercises to your cardio routine.

Something I do when I am short on time, is I will fly through the weight lifting exercises I do without resting, and can get a cardio workout while lifting weights, similar to circuit training, but a bit faster

Thanks a BUNCH! The 200-300 was scattered over 5 - 6 meals (Sorry I neglected to mention that) & I probably averaged 350-400 cal/meal

[Obesity Discussion]

Originally Posted by koogala

Thanks a BUNCH! The 200-300 was scattered over 5 - 6 meals (Sorry I neglected to mention that) & I probably averaged 350-400 cal/meal

My pleasure, glad to help Keep the questions coming!

Something else to keep in mind, is that you can't have optimal weight loss combined with optimal muscle gain. When weight lifters are trying to add the most muscle possible, they intentionally eat more calories than the burn so their muscules have as much nutrients as they can take in for maximum growth. This is called a bulking stage, where they gain a lot of weight. Once they achieve their target muscle growth, they then go through a big time cutting stage, where they try to shed as much weight as quickly as possible utilizing a big calorie deficit and lots of cardio.

Building a decent amount of muscle and losing a decent amount of weight is the best solution in the long run for losing weight, but most importantly keeping it off and increasing your energy levels.

[koogala]

Got some more questions....
My weight program is: 3-4 sets per exercise, 4-6 rep range for mass
Monday chest-warm up
bench press
incline press
military press
tricep pushdown
Tues- leg- squats
leg ext.
hamstring curls
Wed back lat pulldowns
cable rows
bicep curl w/EZ bar (just for fun)
Thurs REST

Friday REPEAT

This is much like the two day split but I put in three days rather than two
& work straight thru weekends & all. This gives me less time in my gym
& more time w/ my family. I am getting stronger on this program so, its working for ME.
QUESTION. Where could I incoporate power cleans & deadlifts into this program? I'm looking for overall mass & strength. I'm not going to compete
in anything but just want mass & strength without 120-150 lbs of lard that I presently carry. I also incorporate 30-40 min cardio post workout (Working into cardio slowly)
I really don't care for the isolation movements but try to stick to the compound moves. Tricep pushdowns & bicep curls are only exceptions

[Obesity Discussion]

Originally Posted by koogala

Got some more questions....
My weight program is: 3-4 sets per exercise, 4-6 rep range for mass
Monday chest-warm up
bench press
incline press
military press
tricep pushdown
Tues- leg- squats
leg ext.
hamstring curls
Wed back lat pulldowns
cable rows
bicep curl w/EZ bar (just for fun)
Thurs REST

Friday REPEAT

This is much like the two day split but I put in three days rather than two
& work straight thru weekends & all. This gives me less time in my gym
& more time w/ my family. I am getting stronger on this program so, its working for ME.
QUESTION. Where could I incoporate power cleans & deadlifts into this program? I'm looking for overall mass & strength. I'm not going to compete
in anything but just want mass & strength without 120-150 lbs of lard that I presently carry. I also incorporate 30-40 min cardio post workout (Working into cardio slowly)
I really don't care for the isolation movements but try to stick to the compound moves. Tricep pushdowns & bicep curls are only exceptions

It would make the most sense to incorporate your cleans/deadlifts into your leg workout, after squats (which I always recommend doing first) but before your leg ext. exercises (which I always recommend doing at the end of the workout). Honestly though, Squats, cleans, deadlifts AND leg ext. are a lot work on your quads in one workout. I would still do leg ext. during your leg workouts, and do no more than 2 out of the 3 heavier lifts (squats, cleans, deadlifts) on top of the leg extensions. Just my 2 cents.

[William Wallace]

Originally Posted by Obesity Discussion

It would make the most sense to incorporate your cleans/deadlifts into your leg workout, after squats (which I always recommend doing first) but before your leg ext. exercises (which I always recommend doing at the end of the workout). Honestly though, Squats, cleans, deadlifts AND leg ext. are a lot work on your quads in one workout. I would still do leg ext. during your leg workouts, and do no more than 2 out of the 3 heavier lifts (squats, cleans, deadlifts) on top of the leg extensions. Just my 2 cents.

I agree, well said

Also don't forget to warmup and stretch well, including stretching your lower back before getting into all the heavy leg lifts

[Merle]

Originally Posted by Gordita

Awesome. I just got here, too. Sounds like you've got some amazing progress done there. CONGRATS.

I agree, good job so far Koogala!! Keep it up! That and