Obesity Discussion Forums

[Deliciously_Saucy]

I'm rather surprised to see a weight loss forum supporting the Atkins diet. The (simplistic) theory behind it? By increasing high amounts of saturated fats and protein into your diet your body can effectively concentrate on burning down fat rather than targeting glucose (as our bodies naturally tend to do) leading to greater weight loss, the theory however had no empirical backing as to how this worked, but, it got results, good results, so the masses sucked it up thinking it wasn't just another "fad diet". Oh my, why oh why...

Atkins involves the restriction of carbohydrates in order to switch the body's metabolism from burning glucose to burning stored body fat. This process (called lipolysis) begins when the body enters the state of ketosis as a consequence of running out of excess carbohydrates to burn.

^rofl

The diet works, that is true, but it has nothing to do with the fools insane ramblings and ideas, the answer is simply wait for it! protein: it makes you feel fuller for longer. People on Atkins are told they can eat as much as they want until they feel full, but that's the thing; despite the grandiose claim of a diet that allows the pigs to gorge themselves at the trough, this was not happening. It was found that people on Atkins where eating LESS food than they where previously and also less to other dieters on low-fat diets, due to you guessed it: protein. This is the reason Atkins works, nothing more or less.

One of the biggest breakthroughs in the weight loss world, or common knowledge mixed with unscientific, unfounded ramblings to sound like something new?

[MikeB]

Well you either burn fat or burn carbs, if you have no carbs then your body starts burning the fat, if no fat or carbs you die...

I don't suggest Atkins for people who are exercising however it works great for sedentary (bed ridden) obese people until they can lose enough weight to get up and get moving around. You are right in one sense however, an excess of calories will cause you to gain weight no matter what you are eating, carbs or fat with your protein.

[Obesity Discussion]

We really don't support diets here at all, in fact, we just offer a bunch of recipes that those diet plans use.

We pretty much preach counting calories and creating a calorie deficit to lose weight; diets don't work. Period.

[Deliciously_Saucy]

Originally Posted by Obesity Discussion

We really don't support diets here at all

Really ?_? then why is there a section devoted to specific diets, some being detrimental to weight loss? How is showing people diets and telling them the recipes of that diet, "not" supporting diets?

The Atkins diet is heavily based on what you eat, a.k.a. recipes (oh shi~ =x), and when many of the recipes have high amounts of saturated fats, that's plain unhealthy and moronic.

If your recipes on this board don't have high amounts of saturated fats, or cut out the negative attributes of said diets, than why even label them as "X" recipes or "Y" recipes; just call them healthy!

in fact, we just offer a bunch of recipes that those diet plans use.

I haven't read the Atkins recipes on here, but if they are actual Atkins recipes, they would be high in saturated fats, no? =o

His claim on saturated fats not being a problem is not what I would call a founded idea. There is debate that trans fat may be worse due to its cancerogenic properties but saturated fat should still be considered a no-no health wise. While there is some discussion to the current said dangers of saturated fats, the consensus is it's still icky ;3

We pretty much preach counting calories and creating a calorie deficit to lose weight; diets don't work. Period.

Actually the majority of time when a diet doesn't work (and I'm not talking about fad diets) is because of the people and their lack of self constraint.

You have a weight loss site, you have a section devoted to Atkins, people are going to assume you support the method of how Atkins works.

Well you either burn fat or burn carbs, if you have no carbs then your body starts burning the fat, if no fat or carbs you die...

Sounds simple, sounds sensible, easy to swallow, but: incorrect. People on Atkins lose weight (with dangerous risks) because they feel full due to the high amounts of protein intake and therefore eat less; it's not a diet, it's a fucking scam.

www (dot) atkinsexposed (dot) org

[Obesity Discussion]

Originally Posted by Deliciously_Saucy

Really ?_? then why is there a section devoted to specific diets, some being detrimental to weight loss? How is showing people diets and telling them the recipes of that diet, "not" supporting diets?

Discussion and supporting are two different concepts, period. Just because we offer a place to talk about something doesn't mean that we support it.

Originally Posted by Deliciously_Saucy

The Atkins diet is heavily based on what you eat, a.k.a. recipes (oh shi~ =x), and when many of the recipes have high amounts of saturated fats, that's plain unhealthy and moronic.

It's not all about WHAT YOU EAT.....it's how much, as well.

Originally Posted by Deliciously_Saucy

If your recipes on this board don't have high amounts of saturated fats, or cut out the negative attributes of said diets, than why even label them as "X" recipes or "Y" recipes; just call them healthy!

Part of the requirements of companies like Atkins (for posting their recipes or info) includes me properly listing them....as Atkins Diet.

Originally Posted by Deliciously_Saucy

I haven't read the Atkins recipes on here, but if they are actual Atkins recipes, they would be high in saturated fats, no? =o

Many of them aren't as a matter of fact. Sure there are a lot that do, but that's why you have the power of CHOICE.

Originally Posted by Deliciously_Saucy

Actually the majority of time when a diet doesn't work (and I'm not talking about fad diets) is because of the people and their lack of self constraint.

Diets in general aren't meant to be kept up for life....but a reason why they're not as effective is due to a lack of restraint, I agree....but that's why people are where they're at today.

Originally Posted by Deliciously_Saucy

You have a weight loss site, you have a section devoted to Atkins, people are going to assume you support the method of how Atkins works.

If that's what people want to assume, let them. We make it pretty clear what we do and don't support here. That's like saying a democratic message board supports republicans if there's a section on republicans, or that we support obesity because we have an "information on obesity section."

[Deliciously_Saucy]

Discussion and supporting are two different concepts, period. Just because we offer a place to talk about something doesn't mean that we support it.

No it doesn't, but do you have any health advisories against the possible risks associated with the Atkins diet?

Such as:

• heart disease
• cancer
• constipation
• bad breath
• bad moods
• gout
• non-Hodgkin's lymphoma
• kidney failure
• massive heart blockage
• sudden death

You may not be supporting it but with how it's presented people could easily get the idea that you do; I thought you where trying to help people lose weight healthily? I've recommended dieting techniques such as starvation, purging and smoking, yet was told this was "bad advice" due to the danger of it. Hypocritical much?

It's not all about WHAT YOU EAT.....it's how much, as well.

yeh, that's why I said

Atkins diet is heavily based on what you eat

I didn't say it was ONLY based on what you eat, although that's basically the only defining feature of Atkins compared to other diets so I may's well of said it. Take away the recipes from Atkins and you have nothing unique about it; the low-carb high-sat/protein idea is basically what defines Atkins, the other parts are general dieting knowledge thrown in.

Part of the requirements of companies like Atkins (for posting their recipes or info) includes me properly listing them....as Atkins Diet.

If you modify an Atkins recipe then it's no longer considered one and legally doesn't need the title. Besides, you really think a multi-billion dollar company gives a shit about one small obesity forum..?

Many of them aren't as a matter of fact. Sure there are a lot that do, but that's why you have the power of CHOICE.

The power of choice is what lead these people into their current situation! If you actually believed in giving people a "choice" then you would be having starvation and annie sections on this site as well.

Diets in general aren't meant to be kept up for life....but a reason why they're not as effective is due to a lack of restraint, I agree....but that's why people are where they're at today.

A diet simply means restrained eating habits, that IS something that is supposed to be kept up for life. Fad-diets, a.k.a the ones with names, the ones on this site, are simply harmful towards weight loss because they impose dangerous ways for short-term weight loss that is simply gained back as soon as the person goes off of said diet. That's why plain, sensible and healthy recipes are the only needed recipes on this site... well if you actually want to help that is.

Staying in a healthy weight range is a life-style, it's not something that can be fixed by fads that not only teach people the wrong habits but end up doing more harm than good.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by Deliciously_Saucy

No it doesn't, but do you have any health advisories against the possible risks associated with the Atkins diet?

Such as:

• heart disease
• cancer
• constipation
• bad breath
• bad moods
• gout
• non-Hodgkin's lymphoma
• kidney failure
• massive heart blockage
• sudden death

You may not be supporting it but with how it's presented people could easily get the idea that you do; I thought you where trying to help people lose weight healthily? I've recommended dieting techniques such as starvation, purging and smoking, yet was told this was "bad advice" due to the danger of it. Hypocritical much?

Before you post wives tales I highly suggest you put up some studies that support such CRAP. About the only thing Atkins is "proven" to do is give you bad breath and if you eat a ton of cheese, constipation. Please post a valid long term study for each of the above side effects you claim. I also don't advocate Atkins as a long term solution but for people who are immobilized it is a good option although a 1500 calorie diet with a 40 p/20 c/20 f split will also work, they key is to stay away from processed foods.

You have come onto this site and spouted the following bullcrap so far:
Take drugs to lose weight
Fast to lose weight
Smoke to lose weight
You have called the site owner a hypocrite yet you are anorexic so you have already proven to be an unreliable source of "mentally healthy" advice.

I wouldn't be surprised if you were banned and your posts deleted soon (this is a warning btw).

[Deliciously_Saucy]

Robert H. Eckel, MD, director of the general clinical research center at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center in Denver agrees. He tells WebMD, "Our worries over the Atkins diet go way past the question of whether it is effective for losing weight or even for keeping weight off. We worry that the diet promotes heart disease. ... We have concerns over whether this is a healthy diet for preventing heart disease, stroke, and cancer. There is also potential loss of bone, and the potential for people with liver and kidney problems to have trouble with the high amounts of protein in these diets."

Volumetrics author Barbara Rolls, PhD, who holds the Guthrie Chair in Nutrition at Penn State University, offers this: "No one has shown, in any studies, that anything magical is going on with Atkins other than calorie restriction. The diet is very prescriptive, very restrictive, and limits half of the foods we normally eat," she says. "In the end it's not fat, it's not protein, it's not carbs, it's calories. You can lose weight on anything that helps you to eat less, but that doesn't mean it's good for you."

Source: The Atkins Diet: What It Is

When people start consuming too much protein (over 2.0 g/kg/d), the extra protein can become a stressful stimulus for the kidney. This is even more of a concern as we get older and our organs are less efficient and effective.

Very high levels of dietary protein have also been correlated with increased urinary calcium excretion. The loss of calcium through urine could potentially be harmful for bone turnover, with the added risk of osteoporosis.

Liver disease certainly poses a problem as far as how protein and amino acids are handled in the body. The liver is the main organ for breaking down amino acids, so when it is impaired, amino acids levels can build up and become toxic. This is particularly worrisome in the case of the so-called aromatic amino acids, such as tryptophan and phenylalanine, which are processed by the liver.

Source: Nutrition: How Much Protein Do You Need?

(look up "protein toxicity")

Atherosclerosis and coronary heart disease:

Prospective randomised trial in 1062 infants of di...[Lancet. 1995] - PubMed Result
Ann Intern Med -- Sign In Page
Effects of dietary saturated, monounsaturated and ...[Atherosclerosis. 2003] - PubMed Result
NEJM -- Dietary Fat Intake and the Risk of Coronary Heart Disease in Women

A 2003 meta-analysis published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition concluded that diets high in saturated fat negatively affected cholesterol profiles — predictors of a heart attack and other cardiovascular diseases

Source: http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/doc...sup0001-02.pdf

Want me to go on..?

[MikeB]

Please do because you posted nothing of relevance, and no long term studies have been done on an Atkins specific diet, the first link you posted even stated that.
So far the concerns about Atkins are just that, concerns because it doesn't follow the standard view of the way the body metabolizes food.
Next....

[Deliciously_Saucy]

no long term studies have been done on an Atkins specific diet

And that's in Atkins favour..? We don't just release medication onto the market with known concerns due to previous knowledge of the harmful chemicals in said drug and say well hey, we can't say this particular medication is dangerous or harmful because there haven't been any long-term studies done with the patients on it.

Just because there haven't been any specific long-term studies complied on the Atkins diet (to my current knowledge) that doesn't mean we can't look at the specifics of the diet (high saturated fat/protein), look at the research done on those and apply them to Atkins.

If I said mixing heroin with the blood of an AIDS victim was a safe way of taking the drug with no side-effects would you still carry the same notion of because no long term studies have been done on this mix we can't say whether it's dangerous...?

you posted nothing of relevance

I posted specific dangers on the individual methods employed by the Atkins diet (the dangers of high fat consumption, the dangers of high protein consumption, not eating a broad enough range of foods, etc) it was all relevant; are you daft or just backed into a corner?

So far the concerns about Atkins are just that, concerns

oh plx, concerns are there for a reason, reasons such as the FACT that this diet uses methods that are known to be serious health risks in order to lose weight. When professionals have "concerns" it's due to something serious, not trivial.

(Atkins) doesn't follow the standard view of the way the body metabolizes food.

No, it uses an unfounded, unproven theory with no supporting empirical evidence, god, it reminds me of what Scientologist believes in. It's the job of the theorist to prove his idea, it's not the job of others to disprove it.

[Chrisydj]

from someone who has suggested the use of illicit drugs and smoking to lose weight i find it comical for you to be so concerned about how dangerous the atkins diet is